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Podcast: The Fintech Diaries Podcast

Written by provenirmulti on December 2, 2024. Posted in Resource. No Comments on Podcast: The Fintech Diaries Podcast

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The Fintech Diaries Podcast:
Fighting Fraud with Provenir

How AI is Securing Finance

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Carbon’s Ceci López and Kike Fashola Are Banking on Nigerian Fintech Innovation

Written by Allison Karavos on March 14, 2024. Posted in Resource. No Comments on Carbon’s Ceci López and Kike Fashola Are Banking on Nigerian Fintech Innovation

PODCAST

Carbon’s Ceci López and Kike Fashola
Are Banking on Nigerian Fintech Innovation

These risk leaders are disrupting the status quo across Africa’s fintech landscape.

As the fintech industry matures, more and more women leaders are driving innovation forward. Kike Fashola and Cecelia Lopez are two of them, heading up credit risk decisioning at Nigerian digital bank, Carbon. Join us as we revisit their conversation with Provenir’s Adrian Pillay, originally aired in September 2023:

In our first EMEA-focused episode, host Adrian Pillay sits down with digital bank Carbon’s Ceci López (Head of Decisioning) and Kike Fashola (Chief Risk Officer) to take a look at the relationship between risk and reward and the future of fintech in Nigeria.

They dig into topics like using data science to support innovation, how to drive adoption of emerging tech in an emerging market, and some of the implications we may not always think of when we talk about AI in risk management.

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The Panelists:

Cecilia López
Cecilia López is a graduate in Actuarial Science from the University of Buenos Aires, boasting a decade of experience dedicated to the development, implementation, and monitoring of predictive models for medium to large-scale businesses. Additionally, she has served as a risk consultant for various banks and Oil & Gas companies across Latin America, specializing in credit risk modeling and the diagnosis and optimization of operational and business processes.
Today, Cecilia holds the position of Head of Decisioning at Carbon, where she spearheads the Data Science and Credit Risk departments. Her extensive expertise in predictive modeling and risk assessment makes her an invaluable asset to the organization, contributing significantly to its success in these critical areas.
Kikelomo Fashola
Kikelomo (Kike) Fashola is a Credit Risk Leader with over 9 years of experience in the financial industry. She is currently working at Carbon, a leading FinTech company in Nigeria. Kike is a highly motivated and results-oriented professional with a proven track record of success in managing credit risk. She is also a strong team player and has a deep understanding of the Nigerian financial market.
Kike is a graduate of Covenant University, where she majored in Industrial Mathematics.
Kike is a positive and proactive individual who is always looking for ways to improve. She is not afraid to challenge the status quo and is always looking for the silver lining.
Adrian Pillay
Adrian Pillay is an experienced Credit Risk professional, and has been involved in financial inclusion and access to credit initiatives in 37 countries across Africa, Middle East, Asia and Asia Pacific. He has also supported World Bank and IFC in their Credit Bureau Program, which aims to drive the expansion of credit bureau coverage across developing markets.
He has held various leadership roles at leading Credit Risk companies such as TransUnion, Dun & Bradstreet, Experian and FICO. He is Vice President of Sales at Provenir, and is responsible for its business in Middle East and Africa.

Cecilia López
Cecilia López is a graduate in Actuarial Science from the University of Buenos Aires, boasting a decade of experience dedicated to the development, implementation, and monitoring of predictive models for medium to large-scale businesses. Additionally, she has served as a risk consultant for various banks and Oil & Gas companies across Latin America, specializing in credit risk modeling and the diagnosis and optimization of operational and business processes.
Today, Cecilia holds the position of Head of Decisioning at Carbon, where she spearheads the Data Science and Credit Risk departments. Her extensive expertise in predictive modeling and risk assessment makes her an invaluable asset to the organization, contributing significantly to its success in these critical areas.
Kikelomo Fashola
Kikelomo (Kike) Fashola is a Credit Risk Leader with over 9 years of experience in the financial industry. She is currently working at Carbon, a leading FinTech company in Nigeria. Kike is a highly motivated and results-oriented professional with a proven track record of success in managing credit risk. She is also a strong team player and has a deep understanding of the Nigerian financial market.
Kike is a graduate of Covenant University, where she majored in Industrial Mathematics.
Kike is a positive and proactive individual who is always looking for ways to improve. She is not afraid to challenge the status quo and is always looking for the silver lining.
Adrian Pillay
Adrian Pillay is an experienced Credit Risk professional, and has been involved in financial inclusion and access to credit initiatives in 37 countries across Africa, Middle East, Asia and Asia Pacific. He has also supported World Bank and IFC in their Credit Bureau Program, which aims to drive the expansion of credit bureau coverage across developing markets.
He has held various leadership roles at leading Credit Risk companies such as TransUnion, Dun & Bradstreet, Experian and FICO. He is Vice President of Sales at Provenir, and is responsible for its business in Middle East and Africa.

Transcript

Carbon’s Ceci Lopez and Kike Fashola Are Banking on Nigerian Fintech Innovation

00;00;09;26 – 00;00;34;06

Intro

You’re listening to the Disruptor Sessions, The Visionaries Guide to Fintech, a podcast from Provenir. Every episode, we sit down with global thought leaders and innovators to explore the future of fintech., from the technology powering change to the visionaries driving disruption. Now your host, Adrian Pillay.

00;00;34;06 – 00;01;01;05

Adrian Pillay

I’m Adrian Pillay, Vice President of Sales for Middle East and Africa at Provenir, and this is our first podcast episode exclusively focused on Africa. We’ll discuss topics like using data science to support innovation, how to drive adoption of emerging tech in an emerging market, and some of the implications we may not always think of when we talk about AI in risk management.

00;01;02;09 – 00;01;34;29

Adrian Pillay

I’m really excited to have two wonderful guests join me to discuss more about their fintech journeys and how their company’s making an impact in fintech in Africa. My guests today are Cecilia Lopez, who we’ll be affectionately calling Ceci, and Kike Fashola, who are both with Carbon. Carbon is a digital bank headquartered in Nigeria, offering loans, payments, investments and personal finance management solutions to customers across Nigeria.

00;01;36;00 – 00;01;42;09

Adrian Pillay

Ceci and Kike, great having you both join me today and really looking forward to our conversation.

00;01;42;27 – 00;01;45;06

Ceci Lopez

Hello. Thank you, Adrian, for the introduction.

00;01;45;10 – 00;01;46;02

Kike Fashola

Thank you.

00;01;46;18 – 00;02;02;06

Adrian Pillay

To kick things off, can I ask you both to introduce yourselves? Tell us a little bit about your backgrounds and how you came to work at Carbon and would also love to hear about any defining moments, experiences that shaped you into the leaders you are today.

00;02;03;08 – 00;02;33;20

Ceci Lopez

This is Ceci. I’m very happy to be here sharing this conversation with you and Kike. I am the Head of Decisioning at Carbon. I’ve been working with Carbon since 2020, so more than a couple of years now, and I’m responsible for credit risk management and also for data science. I’m an actuary. I have a degree in actuarial sciences but I’ve been working in data science for the past 13 years.

00;02;33;20 – 00;02;49;20

Ceci Lopez

I am very excited about the work we are doing in Carbon to introduce innovative data science, machine learning , and all these new artificial intelligence tools we are seeing out there in the process of decision making in our company.

00;02;50;01 – 00;03;18;26

Kike Fashola

I’ve been working in credit risk management for nine years with seven of those years at Carbon. I have a strong understanding of the credit process from identifying and assessing risk, to developing and implementing mitigation strategies. So in 2014, I joined Carbon as a Credit Analyst. I quickly learn how to use my analytical skills to uncover potential risks and my communication skills to explain those risks to the company’s stakeholders.

00;03;19;09 – 00;03;45;08

Kike Fashola

In 2018, I left Carbon to pursue a new opportunity. However, I rejoined the company in 2019 as a Credit Manager. In this role, I have expanded my responsibilities to include developing and implementing credit risk mitigation strategies. A defining moment that made me become the leader I am today was basically being called back to work at Carbon.

00;03;45;08 – 00;04;09;20

Kike Fashola

When I started at Carbon initially, my confidence level was very low. And after going to other places, being asked to come back. – that built my confidence. Similarly in a male dominated industry, I didn’t allow that fact to intimidate me. I was confident in my skills, my abilities, and not be afraid to stand up for myself and for my ideas.

00;04;09;24 – 00;04;31;06

Ceci Lopez

In my case, I would say it’s hard to identify a defining moment. Right? But what I can say is that during my career, I’ve had great managers and so I’ve learned from great leaders. And I’ve learned from them what it takes to be an effective manager. It’s more of a career path, learning from great managers.

00;04;32;09 – 00;05;01;02

Adrian Pillay

I love that, Ceci. I completely agree with you. A large part of how I too would define the key moments that have helped define me as a leader, would be the experiences and the interactions and the influence that my past managers have had over the years in my career as well. So I love that. I think for my first question – Ceci, this is probably one that you would like to pick up.

00;05;01;02 – 00;05;12;27

Adrian Pillay

What’s your view on disruptors or the disruption happening in financial services, and more so, what does disruption mean to you as a data scientist?

00;05;13;21 – 00;05;45;23

Ceci Lopez

Well, I actually think that the financial services industry is one of the most disruptive industries in the world. All these new technologies – we are having right now an artificial intelligence revolution in the past couple of months. And also all the things we’ve been seeing before, big data, blockchain, these are changing the way financial services are delivered. These technologies are enabling new entrants to the markets -fintech companies – and these new entrants are challenging traditional institutions.

00;05;45;23 – 00;06;16;22

Ceci Lopez

These fintech companies, for example, are offering new products and new services that are more convenient, more affordable than those traditionally offer for the customers. And these companies are using technology to make it easier for customers to manage their finances. So overall, I believe that this disruption in the financial services industry is a positive development and it is leading to more innovation, more competition, which is, at the end of the day, beneficial for for the consumers.

00;06;17;09 – 00;06;38;01

Ceci Lopez

However, this disruption is also creating challenges, right? These traditional financial institutions, for example, are facing increased competition – they need to adapt their businesses to remain competitive. Also and most importantly – and this also applies for fintech, right – we need to invest in new technologies to stay ahead of the curve.

00;06;38;01 – 00;07;17;28

Ceci Lopez

Key disruptors in the financial services – well, I mentioned the fintech companies – we are using technology to offer new financial products and services to the customers. These companies are often more agile, more innovative. That also most of the time translates, and hopefully translates, in lower fees and better customer service. Big data is used by these financial institutions to improve their decision making. Banks use Big Data, these huge amounts of data they collect, even if it’s not really Big Data, to assess the creditworthiness of the borrowers and the insurance as well. They can use data to price insurance policies better.

00;07;17;28 – 00;08;03;17

Ceci Lopez

Artificial intelligence. I mention this is being used by financial institutions to automate tasks. For example, we use it to automate fraud detection, can also be used to automate customer service. Most importantly, to develop new products, new services. Lastly, blockchain. This is technology used to record financial transactions. This technology is secure, is transparent, and it has the potential to create a revolution in the way financial transactions are processed. These are just a few, right? The industry is constantly evolving. We see new technologies emerging all the time. And it’ll be quite interesting to see how the financial services industry will change in the years to come. It’s really exciting.

00;08;03;17 – 00;08;48;07

Ceci Lopez

To answer your question, Adrian, as a data scientist, I’m very happy to be a data scientist at this time, to see all this revolution we are lucky to witness. Disruption means for me as a data scientist, the introduction of new technologies, new business models that challenge the status quo, right? And in the financial services industry, this disruption is being driven by these new technologies. And now artificial intelligence is the main driver, right? We we all need to embrace and learn how to use all these new tools that are now available for us to improve the service we give to our customers and also to make our companies more more efficient.

00;08;48;22 – 00;09;30;07

Ceci Lopez

So I am excited about the potential of this disruption in improving the financial services industry in general. Again, we can use it to automate tasks, fraud detection and customer service, and we can free up human resources. Our team members can focus on on strategic tasks, right? Leave these, all these manual tasks on the side, automate the process, trust the automated process, and move on. Do great things, have more time for innovation, improve our decision making, using all the data that is available to us, and also providing insights into customer behavior to ultimately offer our customers a better service. Right.

00;09;30;26 – 00;09;50;02

Adrian Pillay

Thanks, Ceci.That was a brilliant answer. Thank you so much. I’d love if both you and Kike could maybe elaborate on one of the points that you’d mentioned and share with us your thoughts on how we can use data science and AI to make processes more efficient.

00;09;50;29 – 00;10;17;04

Ceci Lopez

Absolutely. I can think on the top of my head a number of ways in which artificial intelligence, data science, in particular, machine learning, can be used to make processes more efficient in companies in many industries, if not all. The first one is the automation of tasks that are currently being performed by humans. Right? We can now free up human resources to focus on our more strategic tasks.

00;10;17;24 – 00;10;47;22

Ceci Lopez

I mentioned before fraud detection, customer service case, mainly risk assessment. Also predictive outcomes. Data science teams in banking, fintech are often dedicated to or actually dedicate most of their time to predict outcomes. Right? This outcome is customer churn, for example, defaults, and these help our business making better decisions and to avoid risk or at least to meet our risk appetite, right, for our portfolio.

00;10;48;06 – 00;11;16;10

Ceci Lopez

We could, for example, use artificial intelligence to predict what customers are likely to default on their loans. Right. This is this been done for for a few years. Credit risk models are built with machine learning. But right now, the availability of more and more data and more complex machine learning tools and all these AI tools that we’ve seen out there make this process more interesting. And the results and the performance of of the models is better.

00;11;16;10 – 00;11;34;11

Ceci Lopez

Optimizing the processes is not only about automating them. We can also optimize the process in many ways. And this doesn’t only apply to fintech or financial services, right? We can think of supply chain management, manufacturing. This way the business is can reduce cost, they can improve efficiency.

00;11;34;17 – 00;12;09;25

Ceci Lopez

For example, a company can use artificial intelligence to optimize inventory. In this way, they can minimize waste, maximize profits, right? One of the most important ones, I think, is personalizing the experiences for customers. If companies can personalize the experience for their customers, they can improve customer satisfaction, they can increase sales. They can recommend the best products and services to their customers and those are the customers are likely – are more likely to be interested. Um, we – we see this every day, for example, new streaming platforms.

00;12;10;24 – 00;12;43;08

Ceci Lopez

So I think the possibilities are endless. As these new technologies continue to develop, I think we can expect to see even more ways to use these to improve efficiency. In particular in the financial services industry, I can see great potential in fraud detection for financial transactions. For example, we could analyze patterns of customer behavior to identify suspicious activity in customer service, to answer customer questions, to resolve their issues, to provide recommendations.

00;12;43;08 – 00;13;22;28

Ceci Lopez

In risk assessment, we can assess risk in financial transactions, assess the creditworthiness of borrowers, the likelihood of default by creating models with these new tools. And one of the most interesting ones is marketing. We can, and actually are, using AI to better target marketing campaigns. We can analyze customer data to identify potential customers and personalize marketing messages. So these are these are a few of the examples that come to the top of my head on out of the many, many ways in which artificial intelligence can be used to make processes more efficient.

00;13;23;15 – 00;13;34;11

Adrian Pillay

Thanks, Ceci. And just following up on that, how does this make room for innovation today within your business and other fintechs in the markets?

00;13;35;12 – 00;14;03;25

Kike Fashola

Data science and artificial intelligence can make room for innovation by, you know, freeing up human resources. So when tasks are automated, human resources are freed up to focus on more strategic tasks. This can lead to new ideas and innovations. For example, a bank that automates its customer service can free up its customer service representatives to focus on developing new products and services.

00;14;04;09 – 00;14;23;09

Kike Fashola

Another way is by providing insights. So data science and AI can enable experimentation with new ideas. For example, a bank that uses AI to test different marketing campaigns can identify the most effective campaigns and use that information to develop new marketing strategies.

00;14;24;09 – 00;14;45;21

Adrian Pillay

Thanks, Kike. I think indeed, I think we’re living in exciting times and I think data science and AI really creates a platform for all our employees to really reinvent themselves and redefine how they add value and contribute to the broader business. Really looking forward to see what the future has for us.

00;14;45;21 – 00;14;58;04

Adrian Pillay

And Kike, tell us how you approach the adoption of emerging tech in a market where more tested tech like the Internet is still not available countrywide.

00;14;58;04 – 00;15;30;27

Kike Fashola

Adopting emerging technology in a market where more tested technology like the Internet is still not available countrywide is a challenge. I mean, a very big challenge. However, I mean, we tried a pilot program in the past during COVID to extend credit to market women by financing their goods, and they in turn paying us back in comfortable installments. We also provided training and support to the users as we – as we knew this was essential for successful adoption of emerging technology.

00;15;31;07 – 00;15;52;14

Kike Fashola

This helps them in some way to understand how to use the technology, and in the app and to troubleshoot any problems that they encountered. With careful planning and execution, we know we can successfully adopt emerging tech even in the most challenging markets by, you know, starting small, being patient and being flexible.

00;15;53;04 – 00;16;07;06

Adrian Pillay

Thanks, Kike. I read an interesting blog recently and I’d love to hear your perspectives on innovation itself being sometimes risky for financial institutions.

00;16;07;06 – 00;16;15;07

Adrian Pillay

So in the case of emerging technology like AI, what implications are there that may not immediately come to mind?

00;16;16;08 – 00;16;45;02

Ceci Lopez

Well, innovation is often seen as a positive thing. Right. But it can also be risky. Of course, in the case of emerging technology like AI, there are a number of implications that may not immediately come to mind. Like I mentioned, some of the risks that are associated with AI innovation in financial services. For example, data security, of course, artificial intelligence systems rely on large amounts of data to be trained and to operate.

00;16;45;19 – 00;17;05;01

Ceci Lopez

If this data is not properly secured, it could be vulnerable to hacking or other forms of attack. This could lead to the theft of customer data, to financial losses, reputational damage. So we need to be very, very careful about this. Data security should be a top priority.

00;17;05;01 – 00;17;37;21

Ceci Lopez

Another one that is not something that immediately comes to our minds is algorithmic bias. Artificial intelligence systems are trained on data that reflects the biases of the people who created them, who created the algorithm, who collected the data, actually, and who analyzed the results. Right. We build a model – someone is building it, someone has designed the – the data collection process to build that model. And those things introduce bias in the model and this is natural, right?

00;17;37;21 – 00;18;13;01

Ceci Lopez

So but we need to be careful about this. We need to be aware that this is a risk we have and we need to take all the necessary measures to mitigate the risk of putting in production a model that is biased in any way. Right. So this means that artificial intelligence systems can be biased themselves. And the problem behind this is that a biased algorithm, a biased model, can lead to unfair or discriminatory outcomes. Right? So this is why it is important to control the bias.

00;18;13;01 – 00;19;06;20

Ceci Lopez

Another one would be cyber security. AI systems are increasingly being used to automate tasks in financial services, as we’ve been discussing here. And this means that these systems are becoming more and more interconnected and this makes them more vulnerable to cyber attacks. So if an artificial intelligence system is hacked or any system that has custody of customer data, we will have a data security problem, right? And again, the theft of customer data, financial losses, or even the disruption of the financial market itself. Right. So to me, these three risks: data security, algorithmic bias, cyber security, things that should be taken very seriously. And companies need to make sure that they are taking all the necessary actions to mitigate those risks.

00;19;07;11 – 00;19;30;27

Adrian Pillay

Brilliant. Thanks, Ceci. Yeah, indeed. I think it’s quite interesting that we find even in, in today’s environment, you know, we quite often about data breaches in some of the really large organizations around the globe. So I completely agree. I think it plays such a massive role in those steps that organizations need to be taking to safeguard themselves and their customers in the future.

00;19;30;27 – 00;19;34;01

Adrian Pillay

And Kike is there anything else that you’d like to add on that point?

00;19;35;03 – 00;20;00;02

Kike Fashola

So the first point that may not immediately come to mind is regulatory compliance. AI systems are still in their early stages of development and there’s a lack of clear regulatory guidance on how to use them in financial services. This means that financial institutions could face regulatory challenges if they use artificial intelligence systems in ways that are not compliant with the law.

00;20;00;21 – 00;20;24;19

Kike Fashola

Another point is ethical considerations. For example, how will AI be used to make decisions about who gets access to credit? How can it be used to assess risk, be used to personalize financial products and services? These are all important questions that need to be answered before AI can be widely adopted in financial services.

00;20;24;28 – 00;20;37;02

Adrian Pillay

Great. Thanks for that, Kike. Yeah, I think indeed, we are really living in innovative time period and I think it’s really fascinating and we are fortunate to be part of this journey.

00;20;37;02 – 00;20;45;14

Adrian Pillay

But as we look to the future, you know, I’d love to hear what are you both most excited about and where do you think we’re heading?

00;20;45;14 – 00;21;11;19

Kike Fashola

Given my background in risk, I’m most interested in financial technology. This can help to improve risk management, and two are most striking, the first being machine learning for risk assessment. So machine learning, which is used to develop models that can predict the likelihood of certain risks occurring. This helps us to make better decisions about how to allocate our resources and manage risk.

00;21;12;10 – 00;21;41;17

Kike Fashola

The second point is automated underwriting. We use Provenir for our credit risk decisioning platform to automate our underwriting processes. This has helped us save time and to improve the accuracy of our decisions. I mean, we are able to analyze and prioritize financial data, make credit assessments. This allows us to make better decisions about who we lend money to. And the fact that it’s- I mean, the flexibility aspect of it is most striking.

00;21;41;28 – 00;22;01;24

Kike Fashola

I mean, Provenir is a flexible platform that allows us to modify rules as we wish. We are able to check rules at any time of the day. This gives us the ability to tailor the platform to our specific needs. So yeah, by using these technologies, we have been able to improve our ability to identify, assess, and mitigate risk.

00;22;02;24 – 00;22;39;07

Kike Fashola

So, we know AI is being used to develop new financial products and services that are more personalized, efficient and transparent. For example, AI-powered robo advisors are becoming increasingly popular and AI is being used to develop new ways to assess risks and to price insurance policies. AI can be used to combat financial crime by detecting fraudulent transactions and by tracing the movement of money. This has the potential to make the financial system more secure and to protect people from fraud, which is very important.

00;22;39;20 – 00;22;41;12

Adrian Pillay

And Ceci, anything to add from your side?

00;22;42;09 – 00;23;03;14

Ceci Lopez

I have two off the top of my head. First one is the rise of decentralized finance – systems built on blockchain technology. These allow people to lend, borrow, invest money in a more decentralized way, and it has the potential to make financial services more accessible and more affordable for for people around the world.

00;23;03;14 – 00;23;28;08

Ceci Lopez

Also, the use of artificial intelligence to improve financial inclusion. Definitely. AI can be used to improve financial inclusion by making financial services more accessible to people, people who are currently underserved or not served at all by the financial system in their countries. We could, for example, develop new ways to verify identity and provide financial services to people in rural areas, for example.

00;23;28;08 – 00;23;53;21

Ceci Lopez

And these are just a few of the most exciting things – what Kike mentioned, these couple I mentioned – the most exciting things to come in terms of fintech services, disruption and all these artificial intelligence revolution. I believe that these technologies have the potential to revolutionize the financial services industry, to make financial services more accessible, more affordable, more transparent for people around the world.

00;23;54;04 – 00;24;13;17

Ceci Lopez

And in terms of where I think we are headed, I believe that we are moving towards a future where financial services are more personalized, more efficient, more transparent, and AI will play a key role in this future. And I am very excited to see how it is used to improve the lives of people around the world.

00;24;14;12 – 00;24;40;29

Adrian Pillay

Brilliant. Indeed. Looking forward to the time when access to financial services is tailored to the needs of each and every consumer that’s made available to them when they need it and more importantly, where they need it. I’m excited, as I’m sure we both of you are, to be part of their journey of bringing and providing access to financial services to every person all over the world.

00;24;40;29 – 00;25;00;24

Adrian Pillay

And it looks like we are nearing the end of our session. Ceci and Kike, it was an absolute pleasure having both of you on today and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Thank you both for taking the time out to share your valuable insights and for contributing to The Disruptors Sessions: The Visionary’s Guide to Fintech.

00;25;00;24 – 00;25;12;23

Ceci Lopez

Thank you, Adrian. We are very happy to be here. It was a privilege for us to have your attention and our audience attention and share our thoughts, our insights with you. Thank you very much.

00;25;12;23 – 00;25;13;10

Kike Fashola

Thanks.

00;25;14;00 – 00;25;46;19

Adrian Pillay

Thanks to all our listeners who tuned in to our podcast, The Disruptors Sessions: The Visionary’s Guide to Fintech. You can find more information about Carbon at www.getcarbon.co. We hope you’ve enjoyed today’s episode. And if you want to hear more, explore all our episodes on your preferred podcast platform or listen on our website at provenir.com. We look forward to you tuning in again to our next episode of the series, and until then, take care.

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James Syron joined the financial services industry after seeing the gaps in traditional credit assessment firsthand.

As DirectID’s Partner Manager, James is committed to preventing others from making the harmful credit decisions he did in his youth. And that’s why he’s so passionate about open banking and its impact on financial education and inclusion.

He sat down with North America host Kathy Stares to dive into the brave new world of open banking – what it means for consumers, SMEs, and lenders themselves. How has the use of alternative data grown in recent years? Who’s willing to share it? What impact does it have on risk assessment? We’ll answer these questions and more on today’s episode of The Disruptor Sessions.

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The Panelists:

James Syron
James Syron is a seasoned credit risk professional. He has led product functions for both Experian and Transunion. During his tenure, he has played a pivotal role in the creation and application of data solutions and was an early pioneer in using bank transaction data to improve the efficacy of credit risk decisions across the credit life.
James is not only recognized for his professional accomplishments but also for his dedication to fostering collaboration within the industry. His thought leadership and participation in industry events and conferences have made him a respected voice in the credit risk community.
His contributions have helped shape how credit risk data is utilized, and his dedication to driving positive change continues to shape the credit and financial landscape.
Kathy Stares
Kathy Stares is the Executive Vice President of North America at Provenir, a global leader in AI-powered risk decisioning software. As a member of Provenir’s executive team, she is introducing creative account management approaches to support the company’s aggressive growth strategy.
Kathy brings more than 20 years of experience in fintech and has a deep knowledge and curiosity about risk decisioning innovation. She’s passionate about helping organizations leverage data and technology to build world-class experiences for their customers.
Prior to joining Provenir, Kathy was Chief Customer Officer at enStream, Canada’s provider of mobile verification services. Kathy received a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Toronto and attained the Women of Influence certificate. Kathy also volunteers for the Menttium organization.

Cecilia López
Cecilia López is a graduate in Actuarial Science from the University of Buenos Aires, boasting a decade of experience dedicated to the development, implementation, and monitoring of predictive models for medium to large-scale businesses. Additionally, she has served as a risk consultant for various banks and Oil & Gas companies across Latin America, specializing in credit risk modeling and the diagnosis and optimization of operational and business processes.
Today, Cecilia holds the position of Head of Decisioning at Carbon, where she spearheads the Data Science and Credit Risk departments. Her extensive expertise in predictive modeling and risk assessment makes her an invaluable asset to the organization, contributing significantly to its success in these critical areas.
Kikelomo Fashola
Kikelomo (Kike) Fashola is a Credit Risk Leader with over 9 years of experience in the financial industry. She is currently working at Carbon, a leading FinTech company in Nigeria. Kike is a highly motivated and results-oriented professional with a proven track record of success in managing credit risk. She is also a strong team player and has a deep understanding of the Nigerian financial market.
Kike is a graduate of Covenant University, where she majored in Industrial Mathematics.
Kike is a positive and proactive individual who is always looking for ways to improve. She is not afraid to challenge the status quo and is always looking for the silver lining.
Adrian Pillay
Adrian Pillay is an experienced Credit Risk professional, and has been involved in financial inclusion and access to credit initiatives in 37 countries across Africa, Middle East, Asia and Asia Pacific. He has also supported World Bank and IFC in their Credit Bureau Program, which aims to drive the expansion of credit bureau coverage across developing markets.
He has held various leadership roles at leading Credit Risk companies such as TransUnion, Dun & Bradstreet, Experian and FICO. He is Vice President of Sales at Provenir, and is responsible for its business in Middle East and Africa.

Transcript

DierctID’s James Syron and Provenir’s Kathy Stares Discuss Using Data For Good.

00;00;09;26 – 00;00;37;08
Intro VO
You’re listening to The Disruptor Sessions: The Visionary’s Guide to Fintech, a podcast from Provenir. Every episode we sit down with global thought leaders and innovators to explore the future of fintech, from the technology powering change to the visionaries driving disruption. Now your host, Kathy Stares.

00;00;37;11 – 00;00;54;04
Kathy Stares
Welcome to The Disruptor Sessions, where we feature one-on-one interviews with thought leaders and innovators from the financial services industry. Today, I’m joined byJ James Syron from DirectID. We’ll be discussing the impact of open banking data on the financial services industry. Welcome, James.

00;00;54;06 – 00;00;55;12
James Syron
Hey, Kathy.

00;00;55;15 – 00;01;11;06
Kathy Stares
Before we move to the topic at hand, my personal belief is that leadership drives disruption by challenging the status quo through innovation. James, was there a defining moment or experience that led you to be the leader you are today? And what is it that drives you as a leader?

00;01;11;09 – 00;01;36;18
James Syron
It’s a great and very kind of broad question. Thinking back, I can remember when I was 18 and at college and actually getting my my first mobile phone – and this was this was 30 years back. So the the bills were about the same size of what the handsets were back then. And I had a part time job, but there was no kind of sustainable way really for me to afford the payments.

00;01;36;18 – 00;01;57;08
James Syron
And as you’d expect, I fell behind. Dad went mad. And at the time I didn’t realize the consequences really of defaulting or missing payment. I didn’t know the bureaus existed. In fact, I was quite shocked at their purpose. And this is a time when you had bad credit, it also affected everybody else in the household.

00;01;57;08 – 00;02;25;13
James Syron
So, no surprising, my dad was upset. I eventually got back on track and I got fascinated about how the financial services ecosystem and how credit worked. And I started working in collections for a full time job. And I got the opportunity then to to start at a bureau. But it was a it was a starter of ambition, a huge ambition to kind of challenge the behemoths of Experian and Equifax were hugely prevalent in the UK.

00;02;25;15 – 00;02;51;09
James Syron
And when you join a relatively small business that had the ambition to become and did the second largest bureau in the UK, you get the experience, the privilege to work in many different kind of areas. And I learned a lot about the kind of monthly cadence that finance data was released into the wild and the the rules around its application, but also kind of number of great mentors that kind of inspired and led my career.

00;02;51;12 – 00;03;14;07
James Syron
And I got to saw the kind of the benefit the credit data plays, you know, in our everyday lives. And I don’t think we should ever really underestimate that. It helps people get a new phone, a new car or a new house, better deals. It just kind of transforms people’s lives and can stop making really bad decisions. So I think that’s that’s something that that drives me.

00;03;14;10 – 00;03;38;08
James Syron
And I saw the gaps back then. You know, a saw what an important role that bureaus played in the credit markets and facilitating that you know, kind of life choices for consumers. But I also got to see the gaps and I thought that things could be better. And I think it was working for a bureau, leading product teams for for about ten years, maybe saying, yeah, there is a better way to do things.

00;03;38;08 – 00;04;04;03
James Syron
The world is moving much faster now, right, than what it did before, and things need to keep pace. And that’s kind of led me where where I am today at DirectID. We’re one of the early pioneers of open banking in the UK and the U.S. and many other different countries. And what I like about it here is that a lot of our kind of senior team all cut their teeth working for bureaus, all grew up working for bureaus and they’re credit risk specialists.

00;04;04;05 – 00;04;16;24
James Syron
And we’ve all got that same kind of passion, really, of of using data for good to help it to drive inclusivity, but also to help lenders make the right decisions about their customers and to help transform their lives.

00;04;16;27 – 00;04;25;19
Kathy Stares
That’s fantastic. If I understand correctly, you took a negative experience and parlayed it into the beginning of a career. I think that’s just disruption right in itself.

00;04;25;22 – 00;04;41;27
James Syron
Yeah. Yeah. It was certainly painful at the time. I think the whole industry can do a lot more around education when people turn 18 to stop them making those decisions. But you’re right, you know, I learned a lot from it and it did end having a positive change.

00;04;41;29 – 00;04;52;20
Kathy Stares
It did indeed. So what’s your view then, if you could define disruption and how disruption affects industries, how would you define it?

00;04;52;23 – 00;05;34;15
James Syron
It’s a great question. Disruption to me means something that stops a market in its tracks. You know, it stops it functioning in a certain way. And probably one of the easiest examples, kind of describe disruptive innovations that we’ve all seen depending upon your age – the one I remember most probably, is digital cameras and films, and going to get these things developed after you’ve been on holiday, waiting a week to pick them up again. And now, you know a digital phone is only just a hand stretch away and to take a picture and I think that rocked the market. And there’s loads of examples – I think Uber – calling a cab. Again made much easier by digital technology.

00;05;34;18 – 00;05;57;07
James Syron
And then most recently has gotta be AI and chatbots, large language models that I think we’re only just starting to see the disruptive impact that they can have. You know, all these things kind of cause significant changes for consumers and market behaviors, and I think we’re going to see much more of them as as technology develops.

00;05;57;10 – 00;06;19;25
Kathy Stares
You’ve highlighted some fantastic examples there, and I – I’m definitely aligned with the statement that it stops people in its tracks or rather the industry in its tracks. And what I really find is that it changes the way how we interact with the industry. And I think you’ve highlighted that there. So let’s get into it. Thanks for that very much, James.

00;06;19;28 – 00;06;35;15
Kathy Stares
The topic today, as I mentioned, is maximizing the impact of open banking. I think we’ve seen a shift in how alternative data is used within the financial services in the last few years, with open banking data being one of the key sources that is changing that landscape.

00;06;35;17 – 00;06;51;04
Kathy Stares
Open banking has been said to accelerate disruption in the financial services industry by fostering competition, collaboration, innovation and the development of a diverse set of personalized financial products – the rise of third party payment providers being an example.

00;06;51;06 – 00;07;01;13
Kathy Stares
Data shows that the segment has a 40% growth in the number of users leveraging the data. How do you view open banking’s impact in financial services?

00;07;01;15 – 00;07;25;05
James Syron
So open banking is such a broad term and it can take so many different kind of guises. And if you don’t close to it, it can be a bit confusing around what it actually means or what value it can deliver to you and how it impacts the consumer. And so I think payments is one which has got a great propensity or has displayed signs of disrupting that particular use case.

00;07;25;09 – 00;08;07;05
James Syron
I think other kind of other use cases – in particular things like embedded finance and also the buy now pay laters, organizations of this world. A lot of this is being facilitated by open banking, whether that is making payments, whether that’s viewing the transaction data to make decisions, or using it within account management process. So I think they have particular disruptive forces. When I think around what we do – what DirectID does – in terms of kind of improving credit decisions, I think I think it’s less around disruption. I think it’s more around harmonization really against the current kind of ecosystem.

00;08;07;07 – 00;08;37;23
James Syron
I think because it’s so integrated and reliant on certain pace and cadence and decisioning rules, it’s difficult to say it’s something that’s disrupt. I mean, the financial ecosystem has got this monthly heartbeat. The credit data is fed it for some time, and that data is distributed and it is used along the kind of customer journey. Put that alongside the regulatory scrutiny that’s put on our interests to deliver good outcomes to customers – it’s difficult to disrupt.

00;08;37;26 – 00;09;07;24
James Syron
So I think lenders are understandably cautious when we talk around using bank transaction data in something that already works. It already works for them, despite probably lenders acknowledging that there’s there’s good benefit, there’s good value in there, there’s good reason to use it. And so for me, it’s about harmonization and it’s about helping lenders understand how to best combine it and consume a much faster, richer data stream on their customers.

00;09;07;27 – 00;09;42;02
James Syron
And I think that’s is one of the main reasons why I think the partnership between Provenir and DirectID is so important, is that together we can tempo and deliver the data in a manner that lenders can easily adopt. You know, we’ve got off the shelf variables on income validation and disposable income., but the partnership with Provenir means that we can deliver kind of custom aggregated variables, originating from a very deep and rich bank transaction dataset. And, you know, right through to kind of credit risk rules that can be used in isolation or blended into existing scorecards.

00;09;42;09 – 00;09;51;13
James Syron
And for me it’s that capability to test and learn and that how do you build it into that very complex ecosystem which is really important.

00;09;51;15 – 00;10;16;14
Kathy Stares
I completely agree. And you sort of touched on the topic of along the customer journey. And I think often when we look at open banking, we look at maybe the acquisition side of the customer journey and its benefits to acquisition. I think that sometimes overall as an industry, we may miss the importance of the use of alternative data across the customer journey and at different touchpoints.

00;10;16;17 – 00;10;27;26
Kathy Stares
What’s your view on how open banking data can really support the customer, not only in acquisition but through through the journey? You started touching on that and I’d like to explore that piece a little bit.

00;10;27;28 – 00;10;54;09
James Syron
Yeah, I think this is the goal yet to be found. You’re right – with the application today is largely around customer acquisition, but there’s huge benefit in into customer management, whether that be to satisfy kind of regulatory requirements that put on lenders in terms of delivering good outcomes, or the optimization really of that customer’s experience review as an organization.

00;10;54;11 – 00;11;24;03
James Syron
Kind of customer retaining outcomes, I think. You know, they really are moving into a time where markets are becoming very competitive, lenders are becoming very competitive. There’s lots of options now and the way to deliver a good outcome, which, you know, you talk to a neighbor about and would always recommend based on the experience you’ve had with them, the data that you’ve got, that the bank transaction data provides, enables you to be really customer-centric and to stand out from that competition.

00;11;24;05 – 00;11;45;13
Kathy Stares
I totally agree. And I think that kind of getting your foot in the door, if you will, on the acquisitions really drives the ability to go across the entire lifecycle. I’ve read that it can be upwards of 25% and that it can be 20% improvement in customer engagement, which I think is that one of the metrics around the customer journey is really engagement.

00;11;45;13 – 00;12;00;24
Kathy Stares
And I think loyalty, frankly, in how customers are served in today’s market. We’ve touched on a good chunk of the benefits and I think we’ve gone through a few benefits. What are the challenges that face you today with open banking data?

00;12;00;27 – 00;12;32;26
James Syron
I think the challengees for our customers, the lenders that we work with, is a concern around conversion and whether whether put in the step in asking consumers or SMEs to share their bank transaction data will have a detrimental impact on conversion. And what we’ve seen is actually quite the opposite. Whether that’s, you know, that the data has been used within the hyper personalization of the journey to the pre populate some of the steps to shorten it down or just to be able to offer more inclusive products.

00;12;32;28 – 00;12;54;25
James Syron
And actually we find that it drives conversion rather than reducing. It is not seen as friction, bearing in mind how convenient it is now to to share that data. I think we’re largely used to authenticating a transaction for our own banking apps or you know, entry credentials, if that’s not available to be able to go a few steps.

00;12;54;26 – 00;13;18;17
James Syron
I think we’ve moving forward. So I read somewhere that in the US it’s 25% now of US residents have shared their bank transaction data for a decision. And similarly in the UK, you know, we’re up to 8, 9 million open banking transactions. So I feel like we’re reaching a critical mass and that that kind of concern, that challenge is going away.

00;13;18;19 – 00;13;47;14
James Syron
For the lender, I think it comes down to, you know, how do you integrate that really fast, rich dataset into a decision? We’re all used to kind of scorecards, we’re used to a monthly cadence of data. How do you take something and integrate something into that decisioning flow, which is predictive? And I think that’s where we’re starting to see the use now of of scores – whether that’s used on their own or to be blended in with scorecards.

00;13;47;16 – 00;14;07;14
Kathy Stares
Yeah, I totally align with that. The other point I think that to highlight and I think you covered it there is it’s really the injection of this new and fresh data into a traditional process. I mean I don’t think the bureaus are ever going to go away, right? So it’s about enhancing that decision piece so it’s more predictive and allows for a better risk assessment.

00;14;07;14 – 00;14;41;28
Kathy Stares
And I think the other piece that we didn’t touch on is it also allows a reach into the underserved population. So you’ve got a whole segment of society today that traditionally cannot interact with financial instruments. And I think the injection of data and the ability to draw on alternative data sources really reaches that underserved population. So I think we started out talking about what challenges are, but I’d remiss if we didn’t highlight that as an opportunity that’s been brought into the industry.

00;14;42;01 – 00;15;02;13
Kathy Stares
Totally. I think the stats- was it 26 million US, 11% of the population, and similarly here in the UK, 5 million. I mean that’s crazy, right? You know, these people who want to get on the ladder, want to do something with, you know, in terms of whether it’s a new phone, new house, new car, just not being able to be visible.

00;15;02;13 – 00;15;17;04
James Syron
And that’s the question that that drives me. And I kind of – there’s not much I can do good in life. I’m not a doctor, you know? But these are things which I do see transforms people’s life. And it’s nice to think that somehow, very small part is helping with that.

00;15;17;07 – 00;15;26;17
Kathy Stares
There’s been a focus on open banking data and how it should be regulated. What are your thoughts on the 1033 regulation?

00;15;26;19 – 00;15;57;22
James Syron
Yes. So the 1033 regulation in the U.S., I think is really going to solidify open banking fervor and drive more adoption from from consumers and SMEs, particularly build up that education side of it. And I think it’s right that consumers, SMEs, data subjects, have the right to request what information an organization holds on them, and I think it moves organizations like DirectID to be more of a real time data bureau.

00;15;57;24 – 00;16;25;23
James Syron
And I think that’s going to create even more use cases and application of the data. And for me, it’s an opportunity to shape open banking and to improve the current ecosystem. And I’m really looking forward to continuing that, you know, help lenders enhance their credit decisions with bank transaction data. Reason why excites me is it makes me remember the the journey I went on when I was was younger, working at a bureau and seeing things shape.

00;16;25;23 – 00;16;42;09
James Syron
And I, I kind of feel that that evolution is there again and it’s it’s an opportunity for, for lenders to kind of change that data set, to enhance that data set they’re making decisions on for for all those advantages we talked around and particularly to drive inclusivity.

00;16;42;11 – 00;17;00;26
Kathy Stares
A little bit of a shift. We’ve been talking about the ability and there are significant numbers that you just threw out there, so reaching a huge part of the population. We’ve come off a downturn in the economy. What’s your view on how open banking data can help financial institutions when we find ourselves in this type of economy?

00;17;00;28 – 00;17;30;02
James Syron
It’s difficult to really kind of understand where the economy is. Certainly every day I read conflicting stories of whether it’s growth or, you know, jobs or whether the kind of more Fed hikes on the way. It’s difficult to know where you are. And my personal hypothesis is that you kind of bank transactions, that data open banking is probably best used in those periods of ambiguity where we’ve faced a lot of kind of uncertainty.

00;17;30;02 – 00;18;02;06
James Syron
And it’s difficult right now to know what’s what’s around the corner. And in particular, I guess an example of that, if you look at the pandemic and you look at kind of credit scorecards, I mean, these these scorecards were created, you know, on a baseline and it’s probably a baseline which had been relied upon for years. But as the pandemic impacted different demographics by different economic and different social impacts, the kind of creditworthiness and behaviors of borrowers were affected.

00;18;02;09 – 00;18;31;07
James Syron
So these traditional credit models, which were, you know, predictive in the past and relied on historical data and assumptions, became really less reliable over time and accurate, actually predicting the likelihood of defaults. So for me, bank transaction data offers that really kind of customer-centric view. It provides insight on what can that customer afford to pay rather than how they’ve performed in the past. And those two things are very different.

00;18;31;10 – 00;19;03;07
Kathy Stares
They absolutely are. And interestingly, we’ve talked a little bit sort of a thread throughout the podcast is the ability to have the data for models that predict and how being able to predict with the appropriate data definitely has an impact on the overall risk assessment as well as the opportunities available across the customer journey. So keeping that predictive lens on… as we look to the future, what are you most excited about and where do you think we’re headed as an industry?

00;19;03;09 – 00;19;36;28
James Syron
So we’ve seen credit risk models now based on bank transaction data, which are as predictive as a bureau credit score, which, bearing in mind my background, kind of knocked me off my chair. I kind of knew the power was there, but it was great to see that hypothesis actually proved. So I mean, when you think about that for a minute, that means, you know, back to those kind of credit invisibles, are those inclusive decisions that you want to make where your traditional scorecard probably would have been a decline?

00;19;37;01 – 00;20;00;09
James Syron
That means now that you could go to a bank transaction scorecard and write business at the same risk as what you were comfortable with, with your bureau scorecard. So I believe it brings in that subset of invisibles into a place where a decision can be made whether to lend or not. And I think that’s particularly exciting in terms of investment of bank transaction data.

00;20;00;11 – 00;20;28;19
James Syron
Within customer management, I like to think that as banks, as any other kind of retailer out there, like like supermarkets, you look at us consumers and want our best intentions, best outcomes. And.. for a lender to contact me if I was showing signs of distress or I’d suffered income shock, so missed a wage going into my account on the day that it was expected, it would be nice for a lender to contact me, give me a payment holiday, just treat me differently.

00;20;28;19 – 00;20;57;01
James Syron
But having that that view of me as a customer and the view of where I am with my financial accounts and to treat me appropriately. And I think that’s exciting of, of where that could go to, particularly around – doesn’t just have to be around customer management. It doesn’t always have to have a downside for a lender to have a view of who else I’m interacting with, for them to push over kind of relevant products and services to me that might be a benefit. That I think also is very kind of exciting.

00;20;57;03 – 00;21;27;16
Kathy Stares
Yeah, and I think I align with the customer-centric and, you know, the conversation around customers driving where their data is used and that sort of in the example that you use. I think looking out my view is that the democratization of data and the inclusive use of of data sources such as open banking are just going to continue to drive that creation of personalized products that reach out to the underserved market.

00;21;27;19 – 00;21;53;13
Kathy Stares
The education piece that you highlighted at the beginning is something where you can get into cash flow management with products. So I think the innovation pool is vast. I think we’re going to continue to see that. I think we’re going to continue we’re going to start seeing how AI and data marry together to drive innovation. So I think there’s a lot that we have to look forward to in the industry and with the use of open banking data.

00;21;53;16 – 00;22;01;17
Kathy Stares
So there it’s it’s been lovely chatting with you, James, on the topic of maximizing the use of open banking data in the financial services industry.

00;22;01;19 – 00;22;06;00
James Syron
Thank you, Kathy. It’s been great to appear on the podcast and to talk around DirectID.

Adrian Pillay

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The Panelists:

Kathy Stares
Kathy Stares is the Executive Vice President of North America at Provenir, a global leader in AI-powered risk decisioning software. As a member of Provenir’s executive team, she is introducing creative account management approaches to support the company’s aggressive growth strategy.
Kathy brings more than 20 years of experience in fintech and has a deep knowledge and curiosity about risk decisioning innovation. She’s passionate about helping organizations leverage data and technology to build world-class experiences for their customers.
Prior to joining Provenir, Kathy was Chief Customer Officer at enStream, Canada’s provider of mobile verification services. Kathy received a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Toronto and attained the Women of Influence certificate. Kathy also volunteers for the Menttium organization.
Bharath Vellore
As General Manager of Asia-Pacific at Provenir, Bharath is spearheading the effort to expand Provenir’s presence in the region. He is driving the company’s strategy to quickly increase engagement with the growing number of fintechs and innovative banks seeking access to industry-leading data and AI-powered risk decisioning software for real-time credit decisioning. Vellore oversee all regional business operations including sales, pre-sales, professional services, and customer success.
Bharath brings more than 15 years of experience working with Financial Services driving revenue growth, regional expansion and business development. Prior to joining Provenir, Vellore held leadership positions at LexisNexis Risk Solutions and Dow Jones.
José Vargas
José Vargas is the executive vice president and general manager for Provenir Latin America. In this role, Vargas is responsible for leading Provenir’s ambitious expansion plans to triple its footprint in the region.
During his career, José has built and led successful sales, business development and consulting teams. He is passionate about financial inclusion, technology and inspiring a high-performance culture.
Prior to joining Provenir, Jose served in various leadership positions at FICO including Senior Business Consultant in Americas and Asia, Regional Senior Director in LAC, and Vice President & Managing Director for Western Europe & Israel. Prior to joining FICO, José spent five years in the financial services industry of Mexico and Latin-America working for Scotiabank and Citibank.

Kathy Stares
Kathy Stares is the Executive Vice President of North America at Provenir, a global leader in AI-powered risk decisioning software. As a member of Provenir’s executive team, she is introducing creative account management approaches to support the company’s aggressive growth strategy.
Kathy brings more than 20 years of experience in fintech and has a deep knowledge and curiosity about risk decisioning innovation. She’s passionate about helping organizations leverage data and technology to build world-class experiences for their customers.
Prior to joining Provenir, Kathy was Chief Customer Officer at enStream, Canada’s provider of mobile verification services. Kathy received a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Toronto and attained the Women of Influence certificate. Kathy also volunteers for the Menttium organization.
Bharath Vellore
As General Manager of Asia-Pacific at Provenir, Bharath is spearheading the effort to expand Provenir’s presence in the region. He is driving the company’s strategy to quickly increase engagement with the growing number of fintechs and innovative banks seeking access to industry-leading data and AI-powered risk decisioning software for real-time credit decisioning. Vellore oversee all regional business operations including sales, pre-sales, professional services, and customer success.
Bharath brings more than 15 years of experience working with Financial Services driving revenue growth, regional expansion and business development. Prior to joining Provenir, Vellore held leadership positions at LexisNexis Risk Solutions and Dow Jones.
José Vargas
José Vargas is the executive vice president and general manager for Provenir Latin America. In this role, Vargas is responsible for leading Provenir’s ambitious expansion plans to triple its footprint in the region.
During his career, José has built and led successful sales, business development and consulting teams. He is passionate about financial inclusion, technology and inspiring a high-performance culture.
Prior to joining Provenir, Jose served in various leadership positions at FICO including Senior Business Consultant in Americas and Asia, Regional Senior Director in LAC, and Vice President & Managing Director for Western Europe & Israel. Prior to joining FICO, José spent five years in the financial services industry of Mexico and Latin-America working for Scotiabank and Citibank.

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Divorce, Data, Disruption: Oh My!

Written by Allison Karavos on December 13, 2023. Posted in Resource. No Comments on Divorce, Data, Disruption: Oh My!

PODCAST

Divorce, Data, Disruption:
Oh My!

Divorcing your bank, debunking long-standing myths, advancing emerging tech, and approaching data ethically…

What do these topics all have in common? They’re innovative ideas our thought leaders have shared with us in our very first season of The Disruptor Sessions.

We’ve loved having fascinating conversations with our brilliant guests, so for our final episode of 2023, we’re looking back at some of the hot topics we couldn’t stop talking about. Tune in for global insights on financial inclusion, artificial intelligence, alternative data and open banking, and – our bread and butter – innovation across financial services.

We hope you’ve enjoyed season 1 and we can’t wait to see you again next year for season 2!

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The Panelists:

Aaron Webster
SoFi’s Aaron Webster Wants to Make It Easier to Divorce Your Bank
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SoFi’s Aaron Webster Wants to Make It Easier to Divorce Your Bank
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Nidhi Verma
TransUnion’s Nidhi Verma Introduces the New Kids on the (Credit) Block
Though they used to be invisible, today they might be the future of the credit market. On this episode of The Disruptor Sessions, we’re exploring the new-to-credit (NTC) population. Though they used to be invisible, today they might be the future of the credit market.
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Costin Mincovici, tbi Bank’s Chief Credit Officer, is a risk leader that likes to say yes. Yes to mobile-first financial services, yes to digital banking disruption, and yes to multi-country risk strategies that offer the accessible experiences that can make or break a provider.
He shares his insights with our EMEA host and Provenir’s regional leader, Frode Berg. They explore everything from the ethical implications of data usage, to market approaches that protect the interests of both the customer and bank, to the “aha” moments Costin hopes to see more of across fintech.

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tbi Bank’s Costin Mincovici Wants to See More ‘Aha’ Moments in Digital Banking

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PODCAST

tbi Bank’s Costin Mincovici
Wants to See More ‘Aha’ Moments in Digital Banking

Costin Mincovici, tbi Bank’s Chief Credit Officer, is a risk leader that likes to say yes.

Yes to mobile-first financial services, yes to digital banking disruption, and yes to multi-country risk strategies that offer the accessible experiences that can make or break a provider.

He shares his insights with our EMEA host and Provenir’s regional leader, Frode Berg. They explore everything from the ethical implications of data usage, to market approaches that protect the interests of both the customer and bank, to the “aha” moments Costin hopes to see more of across fintech.

Listen Now

Tune into our Podcast on Apple or Spotify by clicking the icons below.

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The Panelists:

Costin Mincovici
Costin Mincovici is a credit risk management leader with experience across Europe’s banking and fintech landscape. He joined tbi bank in 2019 and currently serves as the Chief Credit Officer. Costin’s data-driven approach fully embodies the dynamic and ever evolving nature of the company.
Over the span of his 20+ year career managing multibillion portfolios and teams of over 150 professionals, Costin has developed as a true leader who doesn’t shy away from tackling difficult decisions in complex situations.
Frode Berg
Frode Berg is Provenir’s Managing Director of EMEA, responsible for overseeing Provenir’s accelerated growth in the region and enabling new and existing clients. He has developed his career in industries such as credit and business information, marketing and customer programmes and loyalty schemes across the Nordics, UK and US.
Frode has a wealth of commercial leadership experience as well as deep expertise in data, analytics and decisioning. Prior to joining Provenir, he held senior leadership roles at Experian Nordics and Dun & Bradstreet, leading regional business units including sales, operations, and innovation. He is passionate about supporting industry disruptors and the rapid digitization of the financial services sector.

Costin Mincovici
Costin Mincovici is a credit risk management leader with experience across Europe’s banking and fintech landscape. He joined tbi bank in 2019 and currently serves as the Chief Credit Officer. Costin’s data-driven approach fully embodies the dynamic and ever evolving nature of the company.
Over the span of his 20+ year career managing multibillion portfolios and teams of over 150 professionals, Costin has developed as a true leader who doesn’t shy away from tackling difficult decisions in complex situations.
Frode Berg
Frode Berg is Provenir’s Managing Director of EMEA, responsible for overseeing Provenir’s accelerated growth in the region and enabling new and existing clients. He has developed his career in industries such as credit and business information, marketing and customer programmes and loyalty schemes across the Nordics, UK and US.
Frode has a wealth of commercial leadership experience as well as deep expertise in data, analytics and decisioning. Prior to joining Provenir, he held senior leadership roles at Experian Nordics and Dun & Bradstreet, leading regional business units including sales, operations, and innovation. He is passionate about supporting industry disruptors and the rapid digitization of the financial services sector.

Transcript

00;00;09;26 – 00;00;31;17

Intro VO

You’re listening to the Disruptor Sessions: The Visionaries Guide to Fintech, a podcast from Provenir. Every episode we sit down with global thought leaders and innovators to explore the future of Fintech, from the technology powering change to the visionaries driving disruption. Now your host, Frode Berg.

00;00;33;12 – 00;01;07;28

Frode Berg

Hi, all. My name is Frode Berg and I’m the regional leader for Provenir in EMEA. Today on the Disruptor Sessions: The Visionaries Guide to Fintech, we’re talking about disruption in digital banking with mobile-first digital financial services and how the strategic approach shifts depending on the market. I’m excited to have with me Costin Mincovici, Chief Credit Officer at tbi Bank, a mobile-first challenger bank in Southeast Europe and regional leader in alternative payment solutions.

00;01;08;22 – 00;01;13;06

Costin Mincovici

Hi, Frode and thank you for the invite. It’s a pleasure to be with you this evening.

00;01;13;20 – 00;01;31;24

Frode Berg

So, Costin, I wanted to start by asking you: disruption. It can mean different things to different people. I’d like to understand is, firstly, what does disruption mean to you? And secondly, what’s your view on the disruption happening today in banking?

00;01;32;24 – 00;02;13;19

Costin Mincovici

I can say that disruption is us. It’s tbi in the world in which we are operating. We are a regional bank operating in three markets in southeastern Europe, in Bulgaria, Romania, and recently starting last year in Greece. We are the leaders of the embedded finance. So what does it mean? We are doing business with the merchants and financing the customers that are coming and doing their day-to-day buying from the respective merchants, offering them solutions, being inclusive, and trying to help both the customers and the merchants.

00;02;14;12 – 00;02;38;17

Costin Mincovici

Disruption in banking is thinking outside the box, and this is what we are trying each day, trying to look on new data sources through which we would be able to serve the customers that are not so well served by the banks today in the usual brick-and-mortar world in which they are operating. We are looking at what makes a difference.

00;02;38;17 – 00;03;11;27

Costin Mincovici

We are trying to test and sometimes we are succeeding, sometimes we are failing, but we are moving fast. And I think this is all related to disruption. Embedding in the ecosystem what the customer really needs. The emergence of challenger banks and the neobanks which challenge the banks is giving more agility and the more customer-centric services. This would be what I would say, that it’s the view of disruptions, the disruption happening in the banking environment today.

00;03;12;07 – 00;03;53;17

Costin Mincovici

What does disruption mean to me? Changing the existing industry or markets due to technological innovation. And this is what we are seeing. We are, since 2017, customers of Provenir. In fact, we are seeing what the technology is bringing as a plus into our day-to-day life. Working in the past with hard IT teams in which a small change would take few weeks to implement versus doing it on your own with a drag and drop and being able to implement the change in minutes being to the market in a much quicker time than in the past.

00;03;54;25 – 00;04;16;08

Frode Berg

That’s that’s really interesting to hear. And when you say technology is key to help you achieve your targets, is that something you feel is the same approach most players are taking? Or are the different approaches between traditional banks and more challenger and neobanks?

00;04;17;14 – 00;04;40;21

Costin Mincovici

Well, I would say that I can speak from the feedback I’m getting, and recently I was speaking with some guys that are doing the development of the score card for ourselves, and they said that we are ages before the banks and why we are so? Because we are looking all the time on new data sources and different ways of looking to the customers.

00;04;41;01 – 00;05;13;03

Costin Mincovici

And I also understand why the traditional banks are not able to follow the same path, because they have legacy systems, they have brick-and-mortar presence while the challenger banks and the neobanks, again, they are coming back to agility. They are leveraging the technology, doing the operations more efficiently and again, just putting some numbers into it – we are having a compound growth rate of applications and volumes and forms booked on a yearly basis of around 30% year on year.

00;05;13;12 – 00;05;43;14

Costin Mincovici

And this is happening for more than three years going backwards. During this period, we haven’t increased the headcount in underwriting with one FT. In fact, in some markets we reduced the FTs in underwriting and we call it human tech decision because we are trying to be as inclusive as possible and in fact we are trying to save the customers that are on the edge and trying somehow to look at them by a human person.

00;05;43;22 – 00;06;24;12

Costin Mincovici

This speaks a lot about using of technology. And the same I can speak about the colleagues inside, so let’s say the back side of the business in which you are trying to help the customer keep up with their payment. And the same story is over there as well. So we are trying to prioritize in the end efficiency on, one hand and in the same time, by using technology, we are able to prioritize the user experience and trying all the time to play with the champion challenges to see what makes the customer click more and what makes also a better customer click more.

00;06;25;10 – 00;06;56;02

Frode Berg

Okay, excellent. And if we pause a little bit about that technology, you you mentioned that you’ve had some great results growing your topline without sort of adding more, more people. So the sort of machinery seem to to be working. Are there any sort of other key ingredients in your sort of automation play, either technology wise or the way you are using technology that have made you achieve these results?

00;06;56;02 – 00;07;29;05

Costin Mincovici

In principle, it boils down to the technology and understanding your technology. I remember like yesterday in 2017, we signed a contract with Provenir and there was a lot of opposition to it and a lot of opposition to change – and this is usual; to have it. But we managed to go over it, this opposition to change, by using, on one hand Provenir guys to help us and teach us how to use the respective system till the moment we saw the benefits.

00;07;29;05 – 00;08;00;22

Costin Mincovici

It’s very much important to have the quick wins and you will have some quick wins, then people will get on board into the change train and they will go with it towards the final destination of the respective journey. Again, I think that I’m comparing it to the past . I’m comparing it to the hurdles to do some changes in to the risk rules, going to it and trying to put on the pipeline and putting in a SteerCo and doing some changes.

00;08;00;22 – 00;08;34;03

Costin Mincovici

It was taking weeks, two months to implement some simple changes. Currently we are managing the three countries with three guys that are semi-technical, but they are kind of a business analyst together with some technical skills. And we are able to do the changes for all three countries for the entire credit cycle in terms of underwriting, as I was mentioning before in the matter of minutes. So I think this is the main driver and the main benefit of using technology.

00;08;34;03 – 00;08;58;07

Costin Mincovici

There will be, as well – everybody will think about the price that they will have to pay. But putting it in balance, the price versus the efficiency and the time to market, I think it’s without any doubt that using technology that you tested before and you trust – it’s a must for a bank to survive, for, in fact, for any kind of technological venture to to survive in our days.

00;08;59;06 – 00;09;17;24

Frode Berg

Excellent. Not far away from technology, but maybe a little bit over to channel. You have experience from mobile-first credit. What are the hallmarks of a mobile-first credit product? How does it differ from traditional credit products?

00;09;18;06 – 00;09;47;00

Costin Mincovici

You are on the spot to the customer and this is the most important difference versus the usual flow of applying in a branch or applying in a shop, or even applying online. Customer needs easy access through the mobile app, needs an application that responds and doesn’t crash. So in the end, they typically involve streamlined application processes, with – in the end – quick approvals.

00;09;47;07 – 00;10;12;04

Costin Mincovici

This is our aim, the customer’s aim as well, to get a quick approval and often rely on alternative data sources for the credit assessment. We did a first step even before launching the mobile app. The mobile app, we launched it back in 2020 in a short MVP, but before that we were having a customer dynamic limit

00;10;12;04 – 00;10;36;06

Costin Mincovici

All the customer. So overall, our strategy is to onboard and acquire customer, then to engage the respective customer and retain it. And especially on engaging and retaining the customer, our strategy is to do a customer dynamic limit and all the time keep the customer in the loop, providing him the money at the right moment.

00;10;36;06 – 00;11;05;22

Costin Mincovici

And we were having this customer dynamic limit, addressing the customers, and addressing their needs. And what we did immediately after we’ve onboarded and we’ve launched the mobile app, we’ve put the customer dynamic limit into the mobile app, and currently around 65 to 70% of the sales of loans are coming through this streamlined process in which customer just click a button and the money are in his account.

00;11;05;26 – 00;11;25;14

Costin Mincovici

So again, coming down to what’s important for a mobile-first credit product is not to have hiccups and to be right on the moment the customer needs the product to be right there in his pocket. He’s just pressing a button and the money are there.

00;11;26;26 – 00;11;46;07

Frode Berg

So being able to have good efficiency on the accessibility is key, I understand. Is it, is it a challenge to get the same user friendliness and the same customer journey as you would in other channels or would that be the same?

00;11;47;21 – 00;12;21;06

Costin Mincovici

Well, in principle, we are trying and we are putting a lot of effort of the user experience, streamlining and testing all sorts of different scenarios into, in the user experience. Definitely the easiest would be for a customer to apply through the mobile app, but the same would be if you would be applying on the online flow or if you would be on the merchant site and you will see at the checkout that tbi is there and just pressing a button, he would be able to go on the flow of reviewing and getting the respective goods.

00;12;21;24 – 00;12;57;06

Costin Mincovici

In principle, we are focused on the online flows, trying somehow to transform ourselves into a more online bank. I mentioned before we are focusing currently in the phygital mode through which we are serving the customers both in the physical locations, but also in the online flow. And this was a journey we started in 2017 without any online flow, and currently more than 40% of our business is coming from the online flows.

00;12;57;25 – 00;13;23;13

Costin Mincovici

It’s a journey to reach the moment in which you are transposing more and more in the online flow. But we should not forget that there are still some generations which are not so eager to use the online, and they, they like to have the human touch. And for this reason, we are continuing with this phygital model in which we have both physical locations plus the online flow serving our customers.

00;13;25;24 – 00;13;54;16

Frode Berg

So you are capturing both of those markets. That’s good. Looking a little bit, Costin, into – you mentioned you are across various geographies, various territories. You also mentioned you like to have one technology that you could roll out product to product, country to country. But are there some changes that you have when you go into a new market, into a new country, for example?

00;13;54;25 – 00;14;00;03

Frode Berg

Are there differences in those markets that you need to incorporate into your approach?

00;14;00;25 – 00;14;28;17

Costin Mincovici

I think it’s a good question that we actually started last year in April, our newest market, which is Greece. And in fact, how we are going in the new market is trying to be as virgin as possible in the beginning and trying to understand the markets, trying to underwrite as many as possible of those customers initially with small ticket, then growing them, but in the same time learning from the past experiences.

00;14;28;17 – 00;14;54;01

Costin Mincovici

And this is how we do it in Greece. And I think it’s also important to understand what type of market is the market in which you are going. We were not expecting, for example, that Greece will be slightly a blue ocean in which there is no competition. And why is there is no competition? Because there, there was putting all the banks into four big banks that are kind of mammoths.

00;14;54;08 – 00;15;28;28

Costin Mincovici

They are kind of not easy to move and not easy to invest and develop. And this gave us the opportunity of going there and capturing a lot of market, which was not served to before. Coming back to Bulgaria, which is our most mature market, there we’ve touched more than one third of the population in Bulgaria. So there is more like a red ocean in which, again, what’s important is to serve the customers and to be at the right moment for the respective customer with the right product.

00;15;29;14 – 00;16;07;03

Costin Mincovici

For this reason, we are investing a lot into next best product models and the lifetime value of the customers just to understand what’s the customer profile and what’s the product that the customer needs. And then, coming back to Romania as well. There we’ve conquered kind of around 10% of the market. We are number one player on on the market, but it’s still a red ocean in which if you do wrong move, on one hand the merchants which, which you are cooperating will be easy forgetting about you. But as well the customers will be disappointed.

00;16;07;03 – 00;16;32;16

Costin Mincovici

Indeed, it’s a matter of how the market is situated, what’s the maturity of the respective market and you need to adapt to the respective market. I would add one more thing regarding Greece start that we did last year in April. It took us six months to start from zero and have operation started and our first application there.

00;16;33;04 – 00;16;52;02

Costin Mincovici

In our opinion, a very good time to market, on one hand. And I would also mention on my side, on Provenir’s side, that we were able in around three or four weeks to mix and to put all the rules in place so to be able to start the production and the the new loans.

00;16;53;01 – 00;17;16;17

Frode Berg

That’s good to hear. And I’m sure that will help your ROIs and making sure that your product plans go as they should, so that is key. Looking a little bit into, you know, the industry as a whole, you know, digital banking has been around for a while, but still, not all players are as equally focused on digital banking.

00;17;16;28 – 00;17;23;10

Frode Berg

Do you feel there’s something that we’re not talking enough about when it comes to digital banking?

00;17;24;24 – 00;17;54;16

Costin Mincovici

As an industry, I think that digital banking should look more into the cybersecurity because this can be an experience of make it or break it. And I think it’s not only on theirselves but I think on their partners with which they are working with. Recently in Bulgaria, there was a incident in which telephone provider was hacked and they were able – the hackers were able to access the SMSes of the respective provider.

00;17;55;00 – 00;18;13;26

Costin Mincovici

So I think this is one part in which the banks and especially the digital banks, should be careful and invest and keep up the trends that are happening on, on the market. And I think it’s important also to invest in tools to identify the potential fraud that would be happening.

00;18;13;26 – 00;18;40;01

Costin Mincovici

And also another important part would be the ethical implications of data usage. And I think more and more, especially in Europe, but I think it should be worldwide, the data usage and kind of the GDPR of the respective customer. It’s a key component of looking into and trying to protect the interest of the customer, together with the interest of the bank.

00;18;40;01 – 00;19;02;03

Costin Mincovici

And last but not least, but I would say this is something that we are looking into as tbi, it’s the financial inclusion. And we are trying to be as inclusive as possible and trying to grow the customers to ensuring their fair access to financial services for all customers. Me as a risk person, I like to say yes.

00;19;02;18 – 00;19;32;08

Frode Berg

Exactly. Well, now, now we’ve heard that. So that’s that’s great. But I guess, I guess a balance. So but that’s three really key, but maybe also a little bit serious areas, you know, cyber threat, GDPR, financial inclusion, all key. Looking a little bit to the future, what are you most excited about in sort of the direction you think the industry is taking?

00;19;33;04 – 00;20;15;07

Costin Mincovici

I would like to see more “aha” moments in the industry and I would like to see the kind of revoluts coming more and more. And I think that things will be changing. I’m not a big fan of the buzzword of artificial intelligence, but I would say that there will be a lot of benefits coming from artificial intelligence on one hand on serving the customer and serving at the right moment, but in the same time on protecting the banks and the lenders into the future and being able to better understand what is good customer and what would be a bad customer in the end.

00;20;15;07 – 00;20;40;21

Frode Berg

That’s really interesting to hear and that’s been some great insight on disruption. If we take a little bit now, look at you. You’ve been in various leadership positions in international organizations for years. Was there a defining moment or experience that led to you becoming the leader you are today? And also what drives you?

00;20;41;23 – 00;21;11;20

Costin Mincovici

I would not say that there should be one moment that made you the person which you are today and especially the leader that you are today. I would say that it’s a bit by bit journey and experiences that are building up and in the end they are helping us becoming a better human. And recently I was participating in a course of leadership and leadership in organizations, and they were giving the definition of a leader.

00;21;11;20 – 00;21;45;20

Costin Mincovici

And the first part that they were mentioning was extroversion, which I am definitely not an extrovert. And this is not a key personality trait for, for, for myself. In fact, I’m an introvert, but strangely, people are following me. And I was trying after this course to answer why they are following me. And I would say that most probably because they see sincerity on one hand and also that I’m able to show vulnerability.

00;21;45;20 – 00;22;18;25

Costin Mincovici

In the end, I think that leadership is the process of making sense of what people are doing together so that people will understand and be committed. This is what I’m trying each day to explain the reasoning of why, not just to give tasks. I think the managers are giving tasks, but leaders should be explaining and making the people come on board in to the journey, which is the most important part. It’s not the end of the journey that matters, I think it’s the journey itself that matters.

00;22;18;25 – 00;22;34;20

Costin Mincovici

And what drives me? I’m trying all the time to find the unknown and in the end, what’s important for me and this is both in the professional life, but also personal life, is seeing the others growing.

00;22;34;21 – 00;22;54;29

Frode Berg

That’s fantastic. Well, it’s been a real pleasure having you and listening to your perspective on both disruption in the industry and also definitely hearing your thoughts on leadership. Costin, very much a big thank you from us for joining our Disrupter Sessions and I look forward to continuing working with you.

00;22;55;20 – 00;23;01;25

Costin Mincovici

Thank you as well, Frode, and thank you the entire Provenir team. tbi is happy to work together with you.

00;23;02;20 – 00;23;32;16

Frode Berg

And to all who have tuned in for today’s episode, we appreciate your support. We hope you came away with some new insights on mobile-first banking and the ways tbi Bank is influencing the future of financial services in the region. You can find all of our episodes on Provenir.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.

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TDS Mini: Fintech Cheat Sheet (Part 2)

Written by Allison Karavos on August 24, 2023. Posted in Resource. No Comments on TDS Mini: Fintech Cheat Sheet (Part 2)

PODCAST

TDS Mini:
Fintech Cheat Sheet (Part 2)

We’re back for part two of our TDS Mini series, breaking down the first half of 2023.

Our regional experts will give you the SparkNotes version of what happened in H1, where you should focus your attention now, and what to expect in H2 – all in three minutes each!

In our second and final part, we hear from José Vargas (Executive Vice President and General Manager, LatAm), Kathy Stares (Executive Vice President, North America) and Adrian Pillay (Vice President of Sales, Middle East and Africa). Learn about recent regional investment trends and their implications, discover how mindsets about risk, financial inclusion, and data are changing, and get the outlook for SMEs, incumbents, and experiential banking in H2.

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Tune into our Podcast on Apple or Spotify by clicking the icons below.

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The Panelists:

José Vargas
Executive Vice President and General Manager, LatAm
Kathy Stares
Executive Vice President, North America
Adrian Pillay
Vice President of Sales, Middle East and Africa

José Vargas
Executive Vice President and General Manager, LatAm
Kathy Stares
Executive Vice President, North America
Adrian Pillay
Vice President of Sales, Middle East and Africa

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We’re back for part two of our TDS Mini series, breaking down the first half of 2023.

The Fintech Diaries Podcast:
Fighting Fraud with Provenir

Carbon’s Ceci López and Kike Fashola
Are Banking on Nigerian Fintech Innovation

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What Does 2023 Hint About 2024?

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Oh My!

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TDS Mini:
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